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We seem to have made it.
The website is now hosted on different servers, at dreamhost.com.
Of course what could not be done was to resurrect the wiki, which now should instead be recreated from scratch. And, much worse, the mindmapping tool. The page from which it was possible to make a mind map of a delicious account. Right now I have unfortunately no time for much, as I am in the last months of my Ph.D., yet I hope to find at least the time to put back the program to make the mindmaps. So at least people will be able to make the mindmaps themselves. Apologise to all the spammers that sent me spam in the last 2 weeks. Knowing that all the latest comments were going to be lost anyway I avoided to mark them (about a thousand messages) as spam. Please don’t feel ignored, just sent your message again and I shall trash it asap.
It is now the time to present the next project we have been working to: TagBay. And I say ‘we’, because is this project I am not alone. I did it with a friend of mine, Derek, who accepted, very patiently to code, some of the idea I have been tinkering around in the last year or so. I am speaking about how tags, and tag clouds, and distance between tags, and so on.
So, in brief we made a web site to tag material that is being sold on e-Bay. Anybody can tag any object that is being sold. Not only can any object be tagged but you can tag sellers, too (oh, we are not responsible for offensive tags, eh!).
Tags on objects can be made private or public, and you can also search among your tags, among everybody else tags, and eventually (when we code it) it will be possible to search among the tags of another user, like in del.icio.us.
Now that the summary for the people who have no time has been done, let’s try to explain the idea in the details for those who have a bit more time.
Pages:
On TagBay, right now, there are 3 type of pages: e-Bay Search Pages, TagBay Tag Search Page, TagBayUser Tag Search Page, Item Page, and Seller Page.
- Search Page: It is possible from inside Tag Bay to make searches on e-Bay on specific keywords. The user can then add tags to each object that came out, store the tags added all at once, or store the tags of a single object. The same thing can be done in the Tag Search Page
- TagBay Tag Search Page: In this page the user gets all the results for a single tag that someone have used. Nothing fancy (for now). Items where the tag only appears as a private tag will not appear here.
- TagBayUser Tag Search Page: In this page the user gets all the results for a single tag that he have used. If the user is logged in and is looking at his own tags, also the items tagged in a private way will appear.
- Item Page: Each object has its specific page. From such page any user can see what are the public tags that other users have used for that page. Also they can define their personal tags for that object, if their tags are going to be private, and the tags of the seller.
- Seller Page: And then there is the seller page, and in the seller page any user can tag any seller. The use of tag for sellers is still limited, but will be increased in the future.
The natural use of the site
- For a seller or for a shop A seller might want to use the site to tag all the objects that he is selling, giving for each object all the tags related. Thus increasing the possibility for it to be found. We suggest to list the tag in the order of importance, as soon we are going to use the order consider the importance in the search page.
Also, if a person wants to make a cool list of objects, they can tag exactly those objects, with a tag they never used, and then link to the page in their directory of this tag. Thus creating on the spot, their lists. Also sellers will want to tag their objects, and people making searches will tag objects to make lists of objects they want to follow, before jumping on a transaction. We think there is more than enough material to generate interesting behaviour. It doesn’t have to be exactly the same emergent behaviour that we are used to see. After all we are just exploring the possibilities of social folksonomy.
- A shop To the possibilities before, a shop who is selling on ebay might be interested to make sure that the shop itself (remember that you can tag sellers, and not only shops) have all the tags related to the merchandise that they are selling
- Someone buying Our suggestion for someone who wishes to buy, on e-Bay, would be to first look under the tag search, to see if there is anybody who has already tagged any object that they are interested in. This does not necessarily be someone else who is buying, but also someone who is selling. Then tag the objects they are interested themselves, to have it in their own list of objects. Then they could go to the search e-Bay page with the necessary keywords, and add the chosen tag to all the objects interesting. At that point a first selection have been made, and all the possible objects have been tagged. At this point, he could choose one or those objects, change the tags to private, and start betting on it.
- Someone suggesting And finally if someone is just trying to suggest some possible objects, he could search e-Bay for those objects, tag them with a unique tag and present the url of the list to whoever is interested.
There are many other ways to use TagBay. In a sense TagBay is a toy, and not a game. And as every good toy it can be used for many different games. We suggest here only some of them. Also TagBay itself is rapidly evolving. We have tons of stuff we are interested in including, and if you have been reading my blog, you know how my problem is always to find people to code my ideas, more than to find them. And this is why I am so happy for Derek work!
Difficulties that we found:
There were a number of issues that came out when we started developing this program.
- Public vs private tags:
Why would someone tag an object if they are interested to buy it? After all aren’t they making it easier to others to find it, by adding those tags?
This was a serious doubt that we had, and finally we decided to give the possibility to users to tag objects privately. Yet there have to be a balance between private tags and public tags, as public tags are necessary to generate the emerging folksonomy that we wish to use. So we decided for a compromise: public tags can be done from the search page, but private tags requite you to go to the specific object page. In our view (but we are ready to be proven wrong) someone would go to the search page, tag all the entries where he might be interested. Then chose one, and tag that one in a private way.
- Limitations due to the temporary nature of the objects
Considering that most object exist on ebay only for few weeks before being sold, wouldn’t this be not enough time to make a tag cloud and let all cool emergent properties that folksonomy induces, appear?
Maybe, but sellers also can tag the objects they are selling, thus giving a fresh start to all the objects. Also side by side to tagging object we are giving the possibility to tag sellers. Which eventually should survive each transaction and build up an interesting tag cloud.
- I spoke about sellers tagging their own objects, but wouldn’t this invite people to spam your site? After all, wouldn’t it be much better for a seller to add many tags to be present in many searches?
Ah ha! You think tag clouds can be spammed. This is false. Tag clouds cannot be spammed, and no one understand this. And we shall use this site to prove it. We have nothing against spammers, they are absolutely welcome in our site and spam it as much as they feel. Add all the tags they want to each object they sell. It will make ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE in the search page. Tag clouds are unspammable. And our engine will use tag clouds as its base. Everybody else uses tag sets. And this makes them easily spammable. So, no we don’t fear spammers. In fact we hope that spammers will come to our TagBay site. They are just people trying to sell their stuff, we are trying to make sellers meet with buyers. Wouldn’t be bad to single out spammers just because they are spammers.
TagBay is obviously still in beta, and there are many things that need to be coded. If you have any idea on how to make it better please do not hesitate to contact me. If you want to make a difference on what the final product will be now is the time to do it. Also all new suggestion implemented should be listed in a special page with links to the original suggester home page.
Terrell Russell asked for some suggestion on how to improve his tool, Cloudalicious. He asked for it 3 times, one on the del.icio.us mailing list, and one on a comment on my previous entry, and one on his site (link missing as he wisely took this one off). Now I really think three times are too much, and Terrell should be heavily chastised for this. So I will write him a loong list of things that I think his tool should do, and maybe next time he will think better before asking people how should he employ his time as a programmer. I am always happy to give ideas to people, provided a) they remember me when the idea makes them incredibly rich b) they do the coding. Continue reading Cloudalicious suggestions
I did some spring cleaning on the delicious mind map maker. I deleted some of the oldest maps, also from the period when the program was not working fine. If your map got deleted, please don’t be too angry, and just make it again. Unfortunately the only way I had to find the old maps was according to when the directory was created. This meant that if you kept on using the utility, and recreated the map more recently, your map could still be among the unlucky ones.
I am finally having a bit of free time (although is rapidly filling up, as I take from my box the list of all the things I wanted to do and did not have the time to do it). There is quite a list of things I wish to do on this program, to make it more efficient. If any of you have special requirement, now would be the right time to ask.
Pietro
Since my Windows crashed, and I am now running on an old linux Suse 8.0, on a small partition, I was looking forward to reinstall linux as the only OS, with a newer version: Suse 9.2.
After a day of work, the system administrator of the company I work for was not able to install linux on my weird computer (ACER 340). The first problem we had to face was that having an external CDROM (and Floppy) it would never boot from there. Ever. Period. So we had to move all the files to the HD. Even then it was not trivial to convince him (male and bastard) to load from the HD. And when we managed we got an “EBDA too big” error. He tried changing the ‘magic’, but then concluded that my ‘magic’ was of the wrong kind  .
Then we tried to start it under windows and we got a:
“WARNING not enough free memory (load buffer size)”
Which was a similar error: something is too big and the memory is too small. In any case he was able to fix my windows system so for the next months I will keep on using windows and asap I will switch to linux.
Linux don’t run away, our union is just postponed.
I feel the duty to make a short comunication.
My windows system finally crashed under the weight of virus, worms, and similar. I had to recover under linux, but for some weeks I will be unable to have an OS of any kind working properly and completely. Eventually I will install a Suse 9.2. For now I am working with an old Suse 8.0 and many thnks do not work. For this reason, for now, I am unable to make any of the wonderful hacks I planned to do. (I cannot even look at the maps myself right now  )
But I keep on studying Python, so eventually everything will turn out well.
I am happy that some users have actually started to use the site on a regular basis, and I would appreciate if they were to make a link to the map maker if they link to their own map. This since the map maker is not that easy to find, from an individual map.
Did some more debugging. Now any unicode the user used in the tags should be ok. Still there is a big brick wall in terms of memory usage. And some users are not having any luck just out of the fact that their map is taking so much resources that it goes beyond the ISP limit. I could work hard and distribute the whole calculation so that all variables are stored on disk, so the memory would never be hit, but honestly, it is not my top priority at the moment. I am here to help those users run the program on their own machine. And eventually we might solve that problem too. So, what are my top priorities:
- Add an rss feed.I would like to add an rss feed that every time a new map is done, the feed gets updated. It wouldn’t just tell the name but all sorts of data, like the list of the Main Tags. So the users could see if they might be interested in checking the new buddy’s map
- Insert a way for user to delete their own maps. If I am going to go into hosting business, I am not going to be one of those hosts where you can add info, but you cannot delete it. I am aware that users info ultimately is adding value to my site, as such I want users to be happy in having their map here. Not forced.
- Insert a general log of all the maps that are being started, and ended. Right now such a log is absent, and there are about 200 maps completed, and more than twice maps that have been started. So about 300 have been dropped. I bet many of those users would have success, if they tried right now, after those 3 deubugging session. Still I want something that tells me: Warning warning warning, map dropped. Bug? OutOfMemoryError?
- Add the number of posts inside a tag. Just obvious
- Probably add some of the MainTags as keywords to each single map. The problem is: which? All is too much. All the ones that contain more than x posts, y subtags is not flexible enough. The solution should be: if a MainTag is part of a ParetoFront of Delicious than the keyword should be there. The fact that this means writing a whole program that stores in a database the latest ParetoFront is just a small detail . And before you ask: no, I will not need anybody’s password to do that, and the data will all be public.
- Add a bookmarklet to save a map in your own delicious, with the keywords as tags
- Change the map, so that it can run on a single tag. Useful for big complex maps like mine, and others.
- Make it change the Title of the Map Page, to show the owner of the map. Useful if people want to add the maps to their delicious pages.
And then there are some tests I would like to make, like:
- Check if it would make sense to show all the tags that appear with a single tag, and not the subtags.
There is more? If you can think of other modifications , please drop a line in the comment section. Also if you tried to run the map maker and it is not giving you satisfaction let me know. I’ll whip it appropriatly. HarHarHar. (I’ve always wanted to say that!)
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