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	<title>Comments on: On Tag Clouds, Metric, Tag Sets and Power Laws</title>
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	<link>http://blog.pietrosperoni.it/2005/05/25/tag-clouds-metric/</link>
	<description>Pietro Speroni di Fenizio's web log</description>
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		<title>By: Wesley Tanaka</title>
		<link>http://blog.pietrosperoni.it/2005/05/25/tag-clouds-metric/comment-page-1/#comment-160</link>
		<dc:creator>Wesley Tanaka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 20:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pietrosperoni.it/2005/05/24/atg-clouds-vs-tag-sets/#comment-160</guid>
		<description>Interesting way of looking at things.

While you make the utility of converting a multiset to a bet fit power curve pretty clear, I can&#039;t think of actual examples of converting power curves into multisets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting way of looking at things.</p>
<p>While you make the utility of converting a multiset to a bet fit power curve pretty clear, I can&#8217;t think of actual examples of converting power curves into multisets.</p>
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		<title>By: &#187; Visualizing time trends in how a site is tagged on del.icio.us: cloudalicious - Paolo blog: Ramblings on Trust, Reputation, Recommender Systems, Social Software, Free Software, ICT4D and much more</title>
		<link>http://blog.pietrosperoni.it/2005/05/25/tag-clouds-metric/comment-page-1/#comment-159</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; Visualizing time trends in how a site is tagged on del.icio.us: cloudalicious - Paolo blog: Ramblings on Trust, Reputation, Recommender Systems, Social Software, Free Software, ICT4D and much more</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Feb 2007 10:38:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pietrosperoni.it/2005/05/24/atg-clouds-vs-tag-sets/#comment-159</guid>
		<description>[...] UPDATE: I just found it now but Pietro in On Tag Clouds, Metric, Tag Sets and Power Laws was already mentioning that the paper by Clay Shirky &#8220;Power Laws, Weblogs, and Inequality&#8221; started to be tagged as longtail only after the article from Wired: The Long Tail came out [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] UPDATE: I just found it now but Pietro in On Tag Clouds, Metric, Tag Sets and Power Laws was already mentioning that the paper by Clay Shirky &#8220;Power Laws, Weblogs, and Inequality&#8221; started to be tagged as longtail only after the article from Wired: The Long Tail came out [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Pietro</title>
		<link>http://blog.pietrosperoni.it/2005/05/25/tag-clouds-metric/comment-page-1/#comment-158</link>
		<dc:creator>Pietro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2006 11:08:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pietrosperoni.it/2005/05/24/atg-clouds-vs-tag-sets/#comment-158</guid>
		<description>Thanks for commenting,

If we consider, as I was suggesting, the weight of the tags as the number of people who have used a tag divided by the number of people who have bookmarked the url, then the size (i.e. the weight) does indeed approaches zero. Using the weight, instead of the actual number is important to rinormalise the distance between different urls and make them comparable. If you have two urls which has exactly the same ratio among the tags, but one has been bookmarked double the amount of time then the other, the distance between the position in the hipercube of the weight would be zero. Instead the distance between the one bookmarked more and the one bookmarked less is bigger than zero, and exactly equal to the distance between the one bookmarked less and the origin of the coordinates.

In other words: you have to use the weight (or other rinormalization techniques). It does make a fundamental difference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for commenting,</p>
<p>If we consider, as I was suggesting, the weight of the tags as the number of people who have used a tag divided by the number of people who have bookmarked the url, then the size (i.e. the weight) does indeed approaches zero. Using the weight, instead of the actual number is important to rinormalise the distance between different urls and make them comparable. If you have two urls which has exactly the same ratio among the tags, but one has been bookmarked double the amount of time then the other, the distance between the position in the hipercube of the weight would be zero. Instead the distance between the one bookmarked more and the one bookmarked less is bigger than zero, and exactly equal to the distance between the one bookmarked less and the origin of the coordinates.</p>
<p>In other words: you have to use the weight (or other rinormalization techniques). It does make a fundamental difference.</p>
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		<title>By: asplake</title>
		<link>http://blog.pietrosperoni.it/2005/05/25/tag-clouds-metric/comment-page-1/#comment-157</link>
		<dc:creator>asplake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2006 10:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pietrosperoni.it/2005/05/24/atg-clouds-vs-tag-sets/#comment-157</guid>
		<description>Following on from the last couple of comments, just how long can the tail be?  We&#039;re counting a finite number of discrete things so it&#039;s not like the curve approaches zero asymptotically.  Would it be useful perhaps to look at where the log/log line crosses the x-axis (i.e. where the tag multiplicity is 1), and what would it say about about any tags that lie there?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Following on from the last couple of comments, just how long can the tail be?  We&#8217;re counting a finite number of discrete things so it&#8217;s not like the curve approaches zero asymptotically.  Would it be useful perhaps to look at where the log/log line crosses the x-axis (i.e. where the tag multiplicity is 1), and what would it say about about any tags that lie there?</p>
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		<title>By: faurholt&#8217;s fumleri &#187; Tag Clouds</title>
		<link>http://blog.pietrosperoni.it/2005/05/25/tag-clouds-metric/comment-page-1/#comment-156</link>
		<dc:creator>faurholt&#8217;s fumleri &#187; Tag Clouds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Dec 2005 15:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pietrosperoni.it/2005/05/24/atg-clouds-vs-tag-sets/#comment-156</guid>
		<description>[...] On Tag Clouds, Metric, Tag Sets and Power Laws [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] On Tag Clouds, Metric, Tag Sets and Power Laws [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Pietro</title>
		<link>http://blog.pietrosperoni.it/2005/05/25/tag-clouds-metric/comment-page-1/#comment-155</link>
		<dc:creator>Pietro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Dec 2005 12:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pietrosperoni.it/2005/05/24/atg-clouds-vs-tag-sets/#comment-155</guid>
		<description>&gt;Very nice write up!

Thank you Ben, from you is worth double.

Yes, I had to cut the long tail. But this was not for space limitation but because at the time I had no ready made software to screen scrape delicious. And I would agree that the whole info is extreemly interesting. Especially if we want to calculate the distance between two URL the exact shape of the tail might as important as the main tags. But this will depend upon the metric chosen.

On the other hand I really think that it does not make much sense to just list all the tags, unordered (or ordered alphabetically). As time goes to infinity I suspect that each and every word might appear; each and every grammatical error, too (del.iciou.s as well as delifious). But we shouldn&#039;t think that those tags would all appear with the same frequency epsilon. They will be diversified, too. And this differenziation might give insights too, thus the importance of the long tail expressed before.

But if we just list all the tags we would, at the limit, just list every alphanumeric string. All the info would be gone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;Very nice write up!</p>
<p>Thank you Ben, from you is worth double.</p>
<p>Yes, I had to cut the long tail. But this was not for space limitation but because at the time I had no ready made software to screen scrape delicious. And I would agree that the whole info is extreemly interesting. Especially if we want to calculate the distance between two URL the exact shape of the tail might as important as the main tags. But this will depend upon the metric chosen.</p>
<p>On the other hand I really think that it does not make much sense to just list all the tags, unordered (or ordered alphabetically). As time goes to infinity I suspect that each and every word might appear; each and every grammatical error, too (del.iciou.s as well as delifious). But we shouldn&#8217;t think that those tags would all appear with the same frequency epsilon. They will be diversified, too. And this differenziation might give insights too, thus the importance of the long tail expressed before.</p>
<p>But if we just list all the tags we would, at the limit, just list every alphanumeric string. All the info would be gone.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Hyde</title>
		<link>http://blog.pietrosperoni.it/2005/05/25/tag-clouds-metric/comment-page-1/#comment-154</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Hyde</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Dec 2005 14:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pietrosperoni.it/2005/05/24/atg-clouds-vs-tag-sets/#comment-154</guid>
		<description>Very nice write up!

One point I think it worth finding a niche for:  consider your example page.  It has lots and lots of tags that aren&#039;t shown in the summary (presumably so the UI doesn&#039;t become overwhelming).  Tags like test, maps, words in foreign languages, etc.  Given the power-law nature of this a surprising proportion of the volume of the tag set is found in these.  Then there are all those people who posted it who presumably had tags on the tip of their fingers yearning to break free.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://enthusiasm.cozy.org/archives/2005/02/tagging-a-look-at-a-long-tail/&quot;&gt;Here&lt;/a&gt;&#039;s a posting that shows all the tags for a URL.  I found it fascinating.

Truncating the tail of power-law distributions has consequences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very nice write up!</p>
<p>One point I think it worth finding a niche for:  consider your example page.  It has lots and lots of tags that aren&#8217;t shown in the summary (presumably so the UI doesn&#8217;t become overwhelming).  Tags like test, maps, words in foreign languages, etc.  Given the power-law nature of this a surprising proportion of the volume of the tag set is found in these.  Then there are all those people who posted it who presumably had tags on the tip of their fingers yearning to break free.  <a href="http://enthusiasm.cozy.org/archives/2005/02/tagging-a-look-at-a-long-tail/">Here</a>&#8217;s a posting that shows all the tags for a URL.  I found it fascinating.</p>
<p>Truncating the tail of power-law distributions has consequences.</p>
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		<title>By: tagrio &#187; On Tag Clouds, Metric, Tag Sets and Power Laws</title>
		<link>http://blog.pietrosperoni.it/2005/05/25/tag-clouds-metric/comment-page-1/#comment-153</link>
		<dc:creator>tagrio &#187; On Tag Clouds, Metric, Tag Sets and Power Laws</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Nov 2005 01:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pietrosperoni.it/2005/05/24/atg-clouds-vs-tag-sets/#comment-153</guid>
		<description>[...] ws 			 			  			October 15, 2005 at 7:22 am  			&#183; Filed under Tagging						 		 			 				P.S.:As correctly pointed out by Jeffrey Zeldman tag clouds are becoming more and more  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ws 			 			  			October 15, 2005 at 7:22 am  			&#183; Filed under Tagging						 		 			 				P.S.:As correctly pointed out by Jeffrey Zeldman tag clouds are becoming more and more  [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Notes au fil de l&#8217;eau &#187; P.S.: » On Tag Clouds, Metric, Tag Sets and Power Laws</title>
		<link>http://blog.pietrosperoni.it/2005/05/25/tag-clouds-metric/comment-page-1/#comment-152</link>
		<dc:creator>Notes au fil de l&#8217;eau &#187; P.S.: » On Tag Clouds, Metric, Tag Sets and Power Laws</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2005 17:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pietrosperoni.it/2005/05/24/atg-clouds-vs-tag-sets/#comment-152</guid>
		<description>[...] lksonomy02 Oct 2005 06:34 pm P.S.: » On Tag Clouds, Metric, Tag Sets and Power Laws  		P.S.: » On Tag Clouds, Metric, Tag Sets and Power Laws ell, the idea of passing tag c [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] lksonomy02 Oct 2005 06:34 pm<br />
 P.S.: » On Tag Clouds, Metric, Tag Sets and Power Laws</p>
<p> 		P.S.: » On Tag Clouds, Metric, Tag Sets and Power Laws ell, the idea of passing tag c [...]</p>
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		<title>By: TechCrunch</title>
		<link>http://blog.pietrosperoni.it/2005/05/25/tag-clouds-metric/comment-page-1/#comment-151</link>
		<dc:creator>TechCrunch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Aug 2005 22:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.pietrosperoni.it/2005/05/24/atg-clouds-vs-tag-sets/#comment-151</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Profile - Consumating&lt;/strong&gt;

	Company: Consumating
Launched: 2005
Location: Austin, TX
	Overview:

Consumating is dating 2.0. Yes, it&#8217;s dating with tags. They also use a bit of Ajax in their interface.
	After registering (it&#8217;s free), you create an online profile. The ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Profile &#8211; Consumating</strong></p>
<p>	Company: Consumating<br />
Launched: 2005<br />
Location: Austin, TX<br />
	Overview:</p>
<p>Consumating is dating 2.0. Yes, it&#8217;s dating with tags. They also use a bit of Ajax in their interface.<br />
	After registering (it&#8217;s free), you create an online profile. The &#8230;</p>
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